X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 30 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2039625 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 12 May 2007 08:34:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4CCXNEP026670 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 08:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301c79491$fbd94f00$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 08:35:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C79470.746850F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C79470.746850F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, makes sense now, Paul's poorly thought-out experiment does not work = - so it MUST be somebody else's fault. Pretty typical, Paul -- I'd = say. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 12:30 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 Tracy, what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I get the = essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with a = C/S prop? That it does not work on a dyno? Would you please care to clear up the "smoke".... How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is calling = there system) You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot more for = a FADEC? Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed... Best Regards, TJ Hi TJ, Smoke is very hard to clear up. Visibility here in Fla was less than = 1/4 mile all day. I thought it was the fires in Georgia & N. Florida = but it is possible that it was from a certain Email list purveyor in = California :-0 Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with the EC2 = is just that - Smoke. The engine load is accurately reflected by = Manifold pressure and RPM. These are the primary inputs to the EC2 so = it has no problem tracking the variations caused by a CS prop. I don't = have the time to elaborate but it is actually harder to match the fuel = requirements of a fixed pitch prop in most circumstances. The changes = in volumetric efficiency due to rpm change are eliminated with a CS = prop. The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one which = I will abbreviate out of necessity. It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark Supenski's P = Port engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run = before). As it happens, there is no manifold on an engine in this = configuration so it is difficult to measure manifold pressure. Where = are you going to get manifold pressure from? (did I mention that = manifold pressure was a primary input to the EC2?) To make matters = worse, Paul was so confident in his abilities to make anything work = (even an EFI system that he had zero experience with) that he didn't = bother to take the EC2 instructions with him to Mazdatrix. Given = these circumstances, it was no surprise that the dyno run was a dismal = failure. Dave at Mazdatrix yanked everything off the engine, put a = webber carb and manifold on it and got it running in order to get a pull = on the dyno. And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by = extension, with a CS prop) was born. =20 Tracy=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 question Tracy, what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I get the = essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with a = C/S prop? That it does not work on a dyno? Would you please care to clear up the "smoke".... How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is = calling there system) You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot more = for a FADEC? Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed... Best Regards, TJ =20 On 5/10/07, Al Gietzen wrote:=20 On Thu, 10 May 2007 09:31:30 -0800 "Al Gietzen" wrote: > > BTW; preliminary results indicate that the issue I've had with = the > spontaneous changes of settings has been resolved. > Al > What was causing it?=20 Bob W. -------------------- Don't know exactly. Added additional filtering on the circuit = board : 1000pf capacitors were added to: All fuel injector signals All ignition control signals=20 RX input TX output 47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each processor Pin 8 of connector is now grounded. Pin 28 of connector is now grounded. Al -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C79470.746850F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah, makes sense now, Paul's poorly = thought-out=20 experiment does not work - so it MUST be somebody else's =  fault. =20 Pretty typical, Paul -- I'd say.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy = Crook
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 = 12:30=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 = smoke=20 question

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Jakits

Tracy,
 
what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I = get the=20 essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with = a C/S=20 prop?
That it does not work on a dyno?
Would you please care to clear up the "smoke"....
 
How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is = calling=20 there system)
You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot = more for a=20 FADEC?
 
Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled=20 by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed...
 
Best Regards,
 
TJ
Hi TJ,
 
Smoke is very hard to clear up.   Visibility here in = Fla was=20 less than 1/4 mile all day.  I thought it was the fires in = Georgia &=20 N. Florida but it is possible that it was from a certain Email list = purveyor=20 in California :-0
 
Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with the = EC2 is=20 just that - Smoke.   The engine load is = accurately reflected by=20 Manifold pressure and RPM.  These are the primary inputs to the = EC2 so it=20 has no problem tracking the variations caused by a CS prop.  I = don't have=20 the time to elaborate but it is actually harder to match the fuel = requirements of a fixed pitch prop in most circumstances.  = The=20 changes in volumetric efficiency due to rpm change are eliminated with = a CS=20 prop.
 
The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one = which I=20 will abbreviate out of necessity.
 
 It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark = Supenski's P=20 Port engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run=20 before).   As it happens, there is no manifold on an engine = in this=20 configuration so it is difficult to measure manifold pressure.  = Where are=20 you going to get manifold pressure from?  (did I mention that = manifold=20 pressure was a primary input to the EC2?)  To make matters worse, = Paul=20 was so confident in his abilities to make anything work (even an EFI = system=20 that he had zero experience with) that he didn't bother to = take the=20 EC2 instructions with him to Mazdatrix.    Given these=20 circumstances, it was no surprise that the dyno run was a dismal=20 failure.  Dave at Mazdatrix yanked everything off the engine, put = a=20 webber carb and manifold on it and got it running in order to get a = pull on=20 the dyno.
 
And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by = extension,=20 with a CS prop) was born. 
 
Tracy 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Jakits
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 = 7:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2=20 question

Tracy,
 
what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, = .....I get=20 the essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible = with a=20 C/S prop?
That it does not work on a dyno?
Would you please care to clear up the "smoke"....
 
How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is = calling=20 there system)
You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot = more for=20 a FADEC?
 
Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled=20 by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed...
 
Best Regards,
 
TJ

 
On 5/10/07, Al=20 Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> = wrote:=20
On=20 Thu, 10 May 2007 09:31:30 -0800
"Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net >=20 wrote:


>
> BTW; preliminary results indicate = that the=20 issue I've had with the
> spontaneous changes of settings = has been=20 resolved.

> Al
>
<snip>

What was = causing=20 it?

Bob W.
--------------------

Don't know=20 exactly.  Added additional filtering on the circuit = board=20 :

1000pf capacitors were added to:

All fuel injector = signals
All ignition control signals
RX input
TX=20 output

47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each = processor

Pin 8=20 of connector is now grounded.
Pin 28 of connector is now=20 grounded.

Al


--
Homepage:  =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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