X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.2) with ESMTP id 1547940 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:09:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-098-162.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.98.162]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA9E98Op018767 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:09:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002b01c70408$b21a0e50$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: P Porting template? Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:09:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C703DE.C8E25E50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C703DE.C8E25E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We'll just have to agree to disagree, Hans {:>). =20 Having flown a side port since 1998, I can tell you (and Tracy Crook can = as well) that a side port has NO problem making 160-170 HP - provided = you have a decent induction and exhaust system. Tracy Crook won the Sun = & Fun 100 race flying an old, side port 13B producing right at 200HP. = He, of course, is producing even more power with the side port Rensis = engine. At sea level, 6000 rpm should give you a solid 170 HP with a = 13B, with the 2.85:1 gear box you can easily get that at static. 6500 = rpm will give you in the vicinity of 190 HP. There have plenty of dyno = runs which also support the fact that the side port can make plenty of = power. So far, the only flying P port I am aware of is the Powersport which = reportedly produced 215 HP. Mistral is developing a certifiable version = of the rotary and they are sticking with side-port. =20 Don't want to give you the impression I am against P port - I'm not. I = toyed with the idea of doing it myself, but decided that the 180+ HP I = get out of my 91 turbo block with high compression rotors serves my = needs just fine. =20 So looking forward to seeing the results of those building and "P" port = engines - hey, the results may convince me to venture to the "....Dark = side" {:>). However, the notion that side ports can not produce 160-170 = HP below 7500 rpm is simply not correct. Ed From: Hans Conser=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:10 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P Porting template? Well, telling you upfront that I am not flying a 13B; I disagree with = Ed, I don't think you will see that sort of power with a side port 13B = unless you are over 7500 RPM. At leaast this is what I think based on = some dyno runs with various side port engines I have built. P-Port is = the way to go. Hans On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Hi Doug, =20 If you want to develop between 160 and 170 HP from a 13B, I for one = would not consider a P port. The reason, is that the stock 13B will = easily give you that kind of power with less effort and cost. If you = wanted HP on the order of 200 + then a P port might be one approach to = consider.=20 =20 Now if you simply want to experiment with a P port, then got to it. = But, it is simply not needed for the power levels you are looking for. =20 The only person I am aware of who may have the information you want = is Jerry Hey - he use to be on the list, but I have not seeing anything = from him recently. This is the last e mail address I have for Jerry = Hey E-mail Address(es): jerryhey@earthlink.net =20 you might send him a message. =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: DLOMHEIM@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 10:45 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] P Porting template? I have a friend in Denver who is willing to set up his milling = machine to mill out some P-Ports on a couple of my old rotor housings = over Thanksgiving break. My question is if any of you know where I can = get a copy of a template for use with 1.5" diameter intake pipes. I = would think there would be something in the public domain by now (but I = could be wrong). The potential benefits of a P-Port make it pretty = attractive to at least experiment with at some point and I will be happy = to develop between 160 and 170 hp in my 9A so I think that should be = doable... =20 Doug RV-9A, 13B installation ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C703DE.C8E25E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We'll just have to agree to disagree, Hans=20 {:>).  
 
Having flown a side port since 1998, I can tell = you (and=20 Tracy Crook can as well) that a side port has NO problem making 160-170 = HP -=20 provided you have a decent induction and exhaust system.  Tracy = Crook won=20 the Sun & Fun 100 race flying an old, side port 13B producing right = at=20 200HP. He, of course, is producing even more power with the side = port=20 Rensis engine.   At sea level,  6000 rpm should give you = a solid=20 170 HP with a 13B, with the 2.85:1 gear box you can easily get that at=20 static.  6500 rpm will give you in the vicinity of 190 = HP.  =20 There have plenty of dyno runs which also support the fact that the side = port=20 can make plenty of power.
 
So far, the only flying P port I am aware of is = the=20 Powersport which reportedly produced 215 HP.  Mistral is developing = a=20 certifiable version of the rotary and they are sticking with = side-port. =20
 
Don't want to give you the impression I am = against P port=20 - I'm not.  I toyed with the idea of doing it myself, but decided = that the=20 180+ HP I get out of my 91 turbo block with high compression rotors = serves my=20 needs just fine. 
 
 
So looking forward to seeing the results of = those building=20 and  "P" port engines - hey, the results may convince me to venture = to the=20 "....Dark side" {:>).  However, the notion that side ports can = not=20 produce 160-170 HP below 7500 rpm  is simply not = correct.
 
Ed
From:=20 Hans=20 Conser
Sent: Thursday, November 09, = 2006 5:10=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P = Porting=20 template?

Well, telling you upfront that I am not flying a 13B; I = disagree with Ed, I don't think you will see that sort of power with a = side=20 port 13B unless you are over 7500 RPM. At leaast this is what I think = based on=20 some dyno runs with various side port engines I have built. P-Port is = the way=20 to go.

Hans


On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Ed Anderson=20 wrote:

Hi = Doug,
 
If=20 you want to develop between 160 and 170 HP from a 13B, I for one = would not=20 consider a P port.  The reason, is that the stock 13B will = easily give=20 you that kind of power with less effort and cost.  If you = wanted HP on=20 the order of 200 + then a P port might be one approach to = consider. 
 
Now=20 if you simply want to experiment with a P port, then got to = it.  But,=20 it is simply not needed for the power levels you are looking = for.
 
The=20 only person I am aware of who may have the information you want is = Jerry Hey=20 - he use to be on the list, but I have not seeing anything from him=20 recently.    This is the last e mail address I have = for Jerry=20 Hey
E-mail = Address(es):
  = jerryhey@earthlink.net
 
you=20 might send him a message.
 
 
Best=20 Regards
 
Ed
----- Original = Message = -----
From:= =20 DLOMHEIM@aol.com=20
To:=20 Rotary=20 motors in aircraft =
Sent:= =20 Wednesday, November 08, 2006 10:45 = PM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] P Porting = template?


I=20 have a friend in Denver who is willing to set up his milling = machine=20 to mill out some P-Ports on a couple of my old rotor housings = over=20 Thanksgiving break.  My question is if any of you know where = I=20 can get a copy of a template for use with 1.5" diameter = intake=20 pipes.  I would think there would be something in = the public=20 domain by now (but I could be wrong).  The potential benefits = of a=20 P-Port make it pretty attractive to at least experiment with at = some point=20 and I will be happy to develop between 160 and 170 hp in my = 9A so I=20 think that should be = doable...
 
Doug
RV-9A,=20 13B=20 installation 
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