Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #29673
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop controller RPM and Motor Limits - Automatic props
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:44:29 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message
Ok, that tracks, Thomas.  I also use the injector PW to calculate and display power based on fuel burn rate. 
 
My controller design was a simply one to emulate a constant speed prop - not trying for optimum pitch/speed/distance advanced features.  
 
Having seen my good Friend, Tracy Crook, go from happy hobbyist to hard working business Entrepreneur - not certain I am eager to follow {:>).  The technical challenge is fun, but once you get past that all sorts of things rear their ugly head - like production, consumer handling Ugh!, liability, keeping records for tax purposes, etc., etc.,
 
Now Tracy had Laura who runs their business like a Navy Captain aboard a boomer, so that at least frees him from many (how about MOST, Laura? {:>)).  Just don't think my spouse would be as willing to do that (almost) thankless job {:>).
 
Struck a deal to have the old hangar haul away next week.   I have a new one selected but not ordered, going to be a bit different (and better).  Mean while don't plan on getting started until after the trip to Texas in Mid Feb to attend Bill Eslicks Flyin at Pecan Plantation airpart near Dallas.
 
Ed A 
----- Original Message -----
From: rijakits
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop controller RPM and Motor Limits - Automatic props

Hi Ed,
 
thanks for the details!
So far I get it, but Mark seems also to measure "performance" (injector-pulse width), so I guess there would be a "best performance"- mode. However to really be able to program max-performance one would also need some kind of airspeed indication.
 
Did anyone ever check on the Atomatic AVIA props?
They work hydraulically, but seem to be selfcontained - a little ring wit vanes in front of the prop, adjusts the blade pitch according to speed and rpm. No idea about price and suitability....
 
ED, get back on the project!! Only 10% to go!! The market has space for some competition!!
Besides you need something to do! How is the new hangar goin'?
 
Thomas J.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop controller RPM and Motor Limits was Re: Injector pulseing ? Tracy ?

Hi Thomas,
 
There at two design considerations that need attention when designing a controller for an electric pitch prop.  One is determining prop rpm and the second is to determine when the pitch motor has reached its limits of travel.
 
Prop RPM?
 
When I decided to design an electric prop automatic pitch controller, I ran into the same design considerations.  You need engine/prop rpm from some source.  I decided to use an IR sensor reading a tape on the prop (to read its rpm directly) since I did not know what rpm sources might exist on different automobile engine conversions as well as different gear ratios which would ,of course, affect relationship between engine and prop speed.
 
However, there are many ways to approach that need.  I currently derive RPM form my EFI Monitor from measuring the interval between injections (once per e shaft rev).  I suspect that Mark is taking a similar approach to get rpm for his controller.
 
My controller was designed to maintain a certain prop rpm by sensing the prop rpm and automatically varying the pitch to maintain that rpm within a small window (to prevent rpm hunting).  So if Power was increased the prop would automatically increase pitch to absorb the power and keep the rpm within the window and vice versa when power was reduced.
 
I also had three "pre-programmed" rpms for Take off, Climb and Cruise that you could set by the push of a button.  You could also manual establish your target rpm.
 
I had the design 90% completed when the prop project went away so never finished it.
 
Pitch Motor Limits?
 
I think the second problem, as you mentioned, is determining the pitch motor travel limits to which I do not believe rpm is a crucial factor.  You could install limit switches with the risk of added complexity  and weight or you can devise a method to determine and warn when the limits are approached. 
 
 I used a current sensing circuit (which you could adjust for different current levels) to light an LED.  The more current the motor drew  the brighter the LED glowed.  So when the motor approached its stall limit and current increased dramatically over the running current, the LED would start to glow and the further you ran the motor to the limit the brighter it would glow.  The operator must take the corrective action - although I already had a design in the conceptual stage to reverse the motor when the current exceeded a set amount.  Then I decided that I did not want some computer making that decision {:>)
 
Hope this might clarify some of the discussion
 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: rijakits
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector pulseing ? Tracy ?

Question.
 
Why does he ( Mark B.) need the injector pulses?
Unless he wants to have an automatic-best-performance feature, a simple rpm reading from the crank will do fine.
a) Electronics will increase pitch when power is increased to maintain rpm in C/S mode.
b) Pilot will change pitch in a variable pitch mode.
 
AFAIU the problem is to find the exact endpoints of pitch travel. How does knowing the injector pulse width help with that?
It will tell him how much power is produced in combination with an rpm input, but does he also measure airspeed?
 
Not bitching, just trying to get the idea!!
 
Thomas J.
 
 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector pulseing ? Tracy ?

And how would Mark
Burton's constant speed controller react if the EC2 was switched to injector
disable mode.  Depending on how it was wired, it might suddenly sense zero
power or 2X power.  Just thinking out loud.

Good point Dean.  If he only senses pulses to one injector, then it would have to be the primary, which is always active, unless you turn it off via the disable switch.  He may not realize we have the ability to do that, so it would be worth telling him about it. 
 
Cheers,
Rusty
 
 


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