X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.250.84] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.6) with ESMTP id 913795 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:29:27 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.250.84; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 06:24:57 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.150.59 by BAY115-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:24:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.150.59] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Dodge vs Ford Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:24:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C611D9.E3401140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:24:54 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2006 14:24:57.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[CE2D3970:01C61203] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C611D9.E3401140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dodge vs FordInteresting info Ken.=20 I would agree completely with you that the Ford gears are the wrong = choice for a 3.xx to 1 ratio drive. The reason is that they require you = to modify the gear set from fixed planet to fixed ring gear. It can be = done but the challenge is not worth it when a gear set designed to work = that way already exists ( Dodge). I also agree that you are flying one = of the few planes that actually need a 3+ ratio drive. I am not familiar with the Dodge transmission but an overdrive gear with = a ratio of 3.17 : 1 is astounding! Every other OD gear I've come across = has a ratio something like .707 to 1. Are you sure about that gear's = use? I'm always up for learning a new wrinkle. Tracy=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken Welter=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Dodge vs Ford Here is is an email that was sent to me to forward to you all from = a friend of mine that talked me out of building a C-6 based 3.17 ratio = gearbox and talked me into using the 3.21 Dodge gears. He is not on this list but you may have heard of him as he is on the = rotary roster as he is building a Coot with a rotary and he is using one = of my 2.95 belt drives and he should be flying it this summer. He thinks I am nuts going away from the belt drive that I have put = 900 trouble free hrs on and says he will stick with the belt even though = works on transmissions for a living. Ken Welter Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 06:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: Arnold Subject: Re: Fwd Re: [FlyRotary]Soapbox Warning! PSRU Ratios X-Originating-IP: [66.218.79.59] To: Ken Welter One thing I can tell you is that in the last 15 plus years that I = have dealt with planetaries, I still see Ford sun gears coming apart in = 80% of units I take apart and I have yet to find a bad Dodge sun gear = with the exception on total planet meltdown due to a plugged trans = cooler. I am not an engineer, just an observer and a very qualified = transmission expert. Another thing I can tell you is that it was not the amount of pinion = gears that were put into the Ford planets that made it better, it was = the change from aluminum to steel to keep the splines from stripping = out. Also, the Ford planets are only being used (loaded) during up = shifts and the Dodge planet set in question is being used during the = long period of time the truck is towing the trailer down the highway in = overdrive. Good luck with your ratio debate and I hope this info is of help. Arnold Norton ASE certified American Transmissions ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C611D9.E3401140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dodge vs Ford
Interesting info Ken. 
 
 I would agree completely with you that the Ford gears are the = wrong=20 choice for a 3.xx to 1 ratio drive.  The reason is that they = require you to=20 modify the gear set from fixed planet to fixed ring = gear.  It can=20 be done but the challenge is not worth it when a gear set designed to = work that=20 way already exists ( Dodge).   I also agree that you are = flying one of=20 the few planes that actually need a 3+ ratio drive.
 
I am not familiar with the Dodge transmission but an overdrive gear = with a=20 ratio of 3.17 : 1 is astounding!  Every other OD gear I've come = across has=20 a ratio something like .707 to 1.   Are you sure about = that=20 gear's use?  I'm always up for learning a new wrinkle.
 
Tracy 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken=20 Welter
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Thursday, January 05, = 2006 12:45=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Dodge vs = Ford


   Here is is an email that was = sent to me=20 to forward to you all from a friend of mine that talked me out of = building a=20 C-6 based 3.17 ratio gearbox and talked me into using the 3.21 Dodge=20 gears.
  He is not on this list but you may = have heard=20 of him as he is on the rotary roster as he is building a Coot with a = rotary=20 and he is using one of my 2.95 belt drives and he should be flying it = this=20 summer.
  He thinks I am nuts going away from = the belt=20 drive that I have put 900 trouble free hrs on and says he will stick = with the=20 belt even though works on transmissions for a living.
 
  Ken Welter







Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 06:47:42 = -0800=20 (PST)
From: Arnold <vwsandndirt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: = Fwd Re:=20 [FlyRotary]Soapbox Warning!   PSRU = Ratios
X-Originating-IP:=20 [66.218.79.59]
To: Ken Welter=20 <rotary.coot@verizon.net>
One thing I can tell = you is that=20 in the last 15 plus years that I have dealt with planetaries, I = still=20 see Ford sun gears coming apart in 80% of units I take apart and I = have yet=20 to find a bad Dodge sun gear with the exception on total planet = meltdown due=20 to a plugged trans cooler.  I am not an engineer, just an = observer and=20 a very qualified transmission expert.
 
Another thing I can tell you is = that it was=20 not the amount of pinion gears that were put into the Ford planets = that made=20 it better, it was the change from aluminum to steel to keep the = splines from=20 stripping out.  Also, the Ford planets are only being used = (loaded)=20 during up shifts and the Dodge planet set in question is being used = during=20 the long period of time the truck is towing the trailer down the = highway in=20 overdrive.
 
Good luck with your ratio debate = and I hope=20 this info is of help.
 
Arnold Norton    = ASE=20 certified
American=20 Transmissions
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