X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.5) with SMTP id 901359 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:18:27 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB48WYBA3WLRWA for (sender ); Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LC44QWN5; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:17:05 PST To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:16:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] External datalogging, and other stuff Message-ID: <20051225.181625.2540.1.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_0589.633a.1f35 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,12-13,19,21-30,32-34,39-40,47-48,56-57,60-61,66-67,73-76,83-84,89-90,94-108,109-32767 From: al p Wick X-ContentStamp: 7:3:2193757617 X-MAIL-INFO:3debeb1bceb37ffee7472f1b672f23da0b9ea32f8b8ac35bce8ba39e8b3e8b6e27e31ec7eb5f1bae1b8ece5723776f57feb38fe3971aaf979aaa1a3a631adecb3a23ef3377639b3b4b77efe3fb7e93839f7e8b5acf1aafbbaa9edb9fde8e135e6efa1a4a8b9be35e7f47daf3172f2efa8af34f0bc7aeae6b0e9e6b57 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkIXdYkBERT/L8Bn9ANXlZsfp5KAJXRj3zQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_0589.633a.1f35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I take advantage of off the shelf software and hardware. Way more powerful than anything out there. Less expensive. Data logging is common need in the process industry, so this off the shelf stuff handles it well. Uses dead band limits and such to keep logs to very small size. Yet you miss nothing. In four years of flying I've never had to purge any log files from the laptop. The logic utilized by your software during flight is around 40 times more valuable than logging. Yet I agree logging has value. All of the EFIS systems currently available are still pretty dumb. As a result, they don't reduce flight risk anywhere near as much as we need. Check out my web page for details on some of the safety logic. My glass cockpit talks to pilot when needed, never gives false warnings. I've given up all the source code. Goal is to save some lives. This is one of the most significant things you can do to reduce risk. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:24:02 -0600 "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> writes: Holiday greetings to all, The wiring, and EM-2 calibration is complete. So far, everything seems to work, but I won't know what I miswired to the engine until I try to crank it. I retrieved the trailer from the hanger this afternoon, and plan to haul the Kolb to the hanger tomorrow. First (attempted) run of the single rotor should be next weekend. Since I've gone crazy ordering RV-8 stuff, the current plan is to do the ground testing of the single rotor as time allows at the hanger, but to concentrate on getting the RV-8 flying before I actually finish the Kolb. Once the weather gets warm again, and I get sick of working on the RV-8, I might change my mind, but for now, the RV-8 is the priority. My wild and crazy goal is to have it flying by the end of the Summer. It's ambitious, but possible. Now, for the important part. I seem to be drawn to manufacturers who don't seem to think datalogging is a very high priority. Oh, we've heard all the excuses, "I'm too busy working on my 3 rotor RV-8". Ha, I can't even type THAT with a straight face :-) Anyway, I'm now buying a Dynon D180, which is an EFIS, and EMS all in one box. Unfortunately, it would seem that Dynon is another one of those companies who is "going to add datalogging in the future". Once again, data everywhere, but none of it being logged. On the Dynon unit, they spew ALL their flight, and engine data onto the serial port at real time speed. To quote "waiter" (who's parents must have lost a bet when he was being named ): When connecting to the serial port to capture data, keep in mind that the Dynon is spitting out an 80 byte serial stream approximately 64 times a second. Thats about 5k per second, 300k per minute, 18meg per hour. The amount of data and the speed its coming out, presents a challenge to any program that wishes to receive the data. He has written a program to capture this, if you have a fairly fast laptop. Unfortunately, I don't have room, nor the desire to carry a laptop in the RV-8, and certainly not in the Kolb. In looking for other options, I found this little gizmo, that takes serial data, and stores it to a CF memory card. Best we can tell, this will work right out of the box for the Dynon, though it's a bit pricy. http://www.microdaq.com/acumen/sdr-cf.php While thinking of all this for the Dynon, I began to wonder if the same thing will work for the EM-2/EC-2. Tracy said that he doesn't currently push much data out on the serial link, but that he could certainly tweak the software to send it out if we wished to capture it. His serial link is not RS232 format, which the above recorder uses, but he said converting his serial data to RS232 was a simple, one chip project if we needed it in that format. The real question for anyone here is whether there are other serial data recorders that would be suitable for this purpose. The one above is all I can find, and though it's almost exactly what I'm looking for, it just doesn't seem like it should cost nearly as much as it does. Are there any other options? BTW, with the popularity of digital devices in planes now, I think there's a very real market for a flight data recorder. Imagine capturing data from the GPS, EFIS, EMS, in real time, and saving it for analysis. It would be way cool, and is probably the perfect project for Ed :-) Cheers, Rusty (no idea when this will arrive) -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_0589.633a.1f35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I take advantage of off the shelf software and hardware. Way more = powerful=20 than anything out there. Less expensive. Data logging is common need in the= =20 process industry, so this off the shelf stuff handles it well. Uses dead = band=20 limits and such to keep logs to very small size. Yet you miss nothing. In = four=20 years of flying I've never had to purge any log files from the laptop.
 
The logic utilized by your software during flight is around 40 = times=20 more valuable than logging. Yet I agree logging has value. All of the = EFIS=20 systems currently available are still pretty dumb. As a result, they don't= =20 reduce flight risk anywhere near as much as we need. Check out my web page = for=20 details on some of the safety logic. My glass cockpit talks to pilot when=20 needed, never gives false warnings.
I've given up all the source code. Goal is to save some lives. This is= one=20 of the most significant things you can do to reduce risk.
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by= =20 stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland,=20 Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel = design=20 info:
http:= //www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:24:02 -0600 "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> writes:
Holiday = greetings to=20 all,
 
The wiring, and = EM-2=20 calibration is complete.  So far, everything seems to work, but I = won't=20 know what I miswired to the engine until I try to crank it.  I = retrieved=20 the trailer from the hanger this afternoon, and plan to haul the Kolb to = the=20 hanger tomorrow.  First (attempted) run of the single rotor should = be=20 next weekend. 
 
Since I've gone = crazy=20 ordering RV-8 stuff, the current plan is to do the ground = testing of=20 the single rotor as time allows at the hanger, but to concentrate on = getting=20 the RV-8 flying before I actually finish the Kolb.  Once the = weather=20 gets warm again, and I get sick of working on the RV-8, I might change my= =20 mind, but for now, the RV-8 is the priority.  My wild and crazy goal= is=20 to have it flying by the end of the Summer.  It's ambitious, but=20 possible. 
 
Now, for the = important=20 part.  I seem to be drawn to manufacturers who don't seem to think=20 datalogging is a very high priority.  Oh, we've heard all the = excuses,=20 "I'm too busy working on my 3 rotor RV-8".  Ha, I can't even=20 type THAT with a straight face  :-)   Anyway, I'm now= =20 buying a Dynon D180, which is an EFIS, and EMS all in one box. =20 Unfortunately, it would seem that Dynon is another one of those companies= =20 who is "going to add datalogging in the future".  = Once=20 again, data everywhere, but none of it being logged. =20
 
On the Dynon = unit, they=20 spew ALL their flight, and engine data onto the serial port at real time= =20 speed.  To quote "waiter" (who's parents must have lost a bet when = he was=20 being named <g>):
 
When = connecting to the=20 serial port to capture data, keep in mind that the Dynon is spitting out = an 80=20 byte serial stream approximately 64 times a second. Thats about 5k per = second,=20 300k per minute, 18meg per hour. The amount of data and the speed its = coming=20 out, presents a challenge to any program that wishes to receive the data.= =20
 
He has written a program to capture this, if you have a = fairly=20 fast laptop.  Unfortunately, I don't have room, nor the desire to = carry a=20 laptop in the RV-8, and certainly not in the Kolb.  In looking for = other=20 options, I found this little gizmo, that takes serial data, and stores it= to a=20 CF memory card.  Best we=20 can tell, this will work right out of the box for the Dynon, though it's = a bit=20 pricy. 
 
http://www.microdaq.= com/acumen/sdr-cf.php
 
While thinking = of all=20 this for the Dynon, I began to wonder if the same thing will work = for the=20 EM-2/EC-2.  Tracy said that he doesn't currently push much data out = on=20 the serial link, but that he could certainly tweak the software to send = it out=20 if we wished to capture it.  His serial link is not RS232=20 format, which the above recorder uses, but he said converting = his=20 serial data to RS232 was a simple, one chip project if we needed it in = that=20 format.   
 
The real = question for=20 anyone here is whether there are other serial data recorders that would = be=20 suitable for this purpose.  The one above is all I can find, and = though=20 it's almost exactly what I'm looking for, it just doesn't seem like = it=20 should cost nearly as much as it does.  Are there any other=20 options?
 
BTW, with the = popularity=20 of digital devices in planes now, I think there's a very real market for = a=20 flight data recorder.  Imagine capturing data from the GPS, EFIS, = EMS, in=20 real time, and saving it for analysis.  It would be way cool, = and is=20 probably the perfect project for Ed :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty (no idea = when this=20 will arrive) <= /DIV>
<= SPAN=20 class=3D593154222-25122005> 
 
   
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in= =20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, = Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
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