Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #28651
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Tracy, Ed, delta T
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:00:21 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Interesting, Monty.
 
My read was since IAS is a reflection of "q" or dynamic pressure which is the pressure factor responsible for shoving air molecules through the cores - that you would want to compare cooling at the same IAS.
 
From our own  Al Gietzen

http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/msg02818.html

The pressure we have to work with is limited to the dynamic head.  And if
air isn't treated right in the ducting it will form back eddies and pressure
waves, and find lots of ways to give you less flow than you calculate from
your intake area.  Core thickness can be traded for x-sectional area only if
the ducting is designed to get the air slowed and through it.

 

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf

Because the airspeed indicator is The Gauge That

Lies. Despite its name, an airspeed indicator does not

measure speed. It measures "q" – dynamic pressure

caused by packing air molecules into a tube.

 

http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/Instrumentation.pdf 

Airspeed

The airspeed is directly related to dynamic pressure. To find out what the Dynamic

Pressure is, Static Pressure (the pressure of the air surrounding the aircraft) is

subtracted from the Total Pressure, which is the force of the air impacting with the

aircraft (this is measured using a pitot tube which protrudes from the aircraft to meet

the oncoming airflow directly).

So it would seem to me for apples and apples you would want to compare your cooling at different altitudes at the same dynamic pressure (or IAS) in order to isolate the effects of ambient temperature on cooling.  But, then I've been wrong before {:>)

 

Ed A

 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Tracy, Ed, delta T

Good question Monty but I don't know.  Only looked at it down low on hot days.  I'l try the following experiment next time I fly:
 
Set fuel burn at a constant value (for roughly the same BTU rejection in both cases).  Measure delta T at 1000 ft then at 8000 ft.  Airspeed should also be similar.  Do you think IAS or TAS should be the target?
 
Tracy
 
TAS is the number you need since that is the real velocity through the medium that the inlet is seeing. I made the mistake of using indicated speeds to calculate my inlets at first, they were gargantuan!  It would also be nice to know OAT so I can pin down the density. Cp is fairly insensitive to altitude and temp. Delta t makes a huge difference in the size of the inlet.
 
 70-80 deg delta T at low altitude on a hot day is really great! That means you must have a pretty well optimized set up. I think the lower delta T numbers indicate way too much flow and not enough diffusion to get the job done. With rads this thick and as much dynamic pressure as we have there should be a higher delta T. My guess is the outlets are so big that there is way too much air moving through these coolers. Closing the outlet down should reduce the flow and up the deltaT. This of course assumes the core volume and diffuser is up to the task. My low hanging fruit meter is going off.
 
I don't think that a liquid cooled engine is ever going to compete with an air cooled engine on minimum cooling drag, but to get close we are going to have to stop ingesting so much air. Take a look at a competitive F1 racer's cooling inlets (TINY). They might make 130-150 hp. Why are we flying around with garbage can size openings for not too much more power? Of course if you are up against the drag of the airframe, this is less of an issue.
 
The numbers I am getting using your delta T of around 70-80 F  and cruise from 10Kft-18Kft give inlet area somewhere around 35-40 in^2. For climb it is as high as 100 in^2 and even that isn't enough in a full power slow climb on a really hot day. Since I am not operating a WWII bomber out of North Africa, I will not worry about that too much. ;-). My initial inlet size is 3.5inX10.5in variable to 7X10.5. with a spray bar to take care of any oops I may have made in calculating this. I'll probably compromise and make it a little bigger, plus it just seems scary small. But then again if you look at a P51 and realize how much HP it was making and then look at the inlet, maybe 35 in^2 is not so small for less than 200 hp.
 
I saw in one of your posts where you said your mission was 18Kft at 100 hp (LOP I assume). That is one flight condition I have looked at as well and it gives some really enticing numbers! 50 gal of fuel goes a long way at that flight level. My main cruise design point is in the 200 mph range at 10-12Kft.
 
Monty
 
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