X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.248] (HELO qnsi-xch.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c2) with ESMTP id 729957 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:30:11 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.248; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5BF93.93678F24" Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Pauls Accident - analysis Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:34:59 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Pauls Accident - analysis Thread-Index: AcW/icCgOu/AH5n7Sr+huWp6T2rougABuJAw From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5BF93.93678F24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, =20 All of the drawings on the Microtechefi.com site show four injectors for the LTX8 units. In my emails with Paul this is the unit he referenced. The Microtech manual does reference a Throttle Body setup that only have two wires provided for installation. The normal product has four wires for four injectors. It looks like Paul may have only been wired for two but the unit does support four and injector staging. =20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:18 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Pauls Accident - analysis Barry and Bobby, I stand corrected !! Paul's "Microtech" was several years old........Does anybody=20 know for sure if early versions had stageing feature ?? Dave Atkins should know...... -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from Barry Gardner : --------------=20 =09 Nah, his engine controller was the Microtech. I've been looking at it too. It's Aussie, like the rest of them. Paul bought it from Atkins, too. =09 Barry Gardner =09 Kelly Troyer wrote:=20 Ed and All, I may be wrong but do not believe that the Engine Control System that Paul had supported staged (four injectors) injection.......Again not certain but I think his ECS was a "Motec"......... -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : --------------=20 =09 =09 John, I believe the TWM throttle body that Paul got from Atkins which has injector positions comes with only two injector positions. This throttle body was available from the distributor (TWM) in either 2 or 4 injector model. I know from personal experience that using the 4 injector TW (I had one initially installed) on the 13B made a more difficult installation - because the two injectors on the "inside" required you to position the TB a fair distance from the engine block. So to avoid a lot of manifold work (extending the TB further away from the block to give room for the two inside injectors), the TB with only the two injector positions on the outside were most favored for the aircraft installation. I believe that was the only model sold by Atkins. I know of one other who also flew with only two injectors, but there may be more. =20 Reduce fuel flow whether due to fuel selector position or defective injector or combination during take off would certainly be critical. As pointed out, when you lose one rotor you lose more than 50% of your HP due to 1. Less rpm with only one rotor ,2. drag of non-power producing rotor.=20 =20 =20 Ed A =20 =20 =20 From: John Slade To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:09 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Pauls Accident - analysis The analysis of the 4 canardians who examined the wreckage of Paul Conner's aircraft is now available at: =20 =09 http://www.cozybuilders.org/N2992_Accident_Eval/ =20 =20 Does anyone know if and why Paul's engine was configured with one injector per rotor?=20 John =20 =09 -- =09 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =09 Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ =09 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5BF93.93678F24 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kelly,
 
All of the drawings on the Microtechefi.com = site show four=20 injectors for the LTX8 units. In my emails with Paul this is the unit he = referenced. The Microtech manual does reference a Throttle Body setup = that only=20 have two wires provided for installation. The normal product has four = wires for=20 four injectors. It looks like Paul may have only been wired for two but = the unit=20 does support four and injector staging.
 
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly=20 Troyer
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:18 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Pauls = Accident -=20 analysis

Barry and Bobby,
I stand corrected !! Paul's "Microtech" was several years = old........Does=20 anybody
know for sure if early versions had stageing feature ?? Dave = Atkins=20 should
know......
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke = Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20




--------------=20 Original message from Barry Gardner = <barrygardner@mindspring.com>:=20 --------------

Nah, his engine controller was the Microtech. = I've been=20 looking at it too. It's Aussie, like the rest of them. Paul bought it = from=20 Atkins, too.

Barry Gardner

Kelly Troyer wrote:=20
Ed and All,
     I may be wrong but do not believe that = the=20 Engine Control System that Paul
had supported staged (four injectors) injection.......Again not = certain=20 but I think
his ECS was a "Motec".........
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;:=20 --------------

John, I believe the TWM throttle body that = Paul got=20 from Atkins which has injector positions comes with only two = injector=20 positions.  This throttle body was available from the = distributor=20 (TWM) in either 2 or 4 injector model.   I know from = personal=20 experience that using the 4 injector TW (I had one initially = installed) on=20 the 13B made a more difficult installation - because the two=20 injectors on the "inside" required you to position the TB a fair = distance=20 from the engine block.  So to avoid a lot of manifold work = (extending=20 the TB further away from the block to give room for the two inside = injectors), the TB with only the two injector positions on the = outside=20 were most favored for the aircraft installation.  I believe = that was=20 the only model sold by Atkins.   I know of one other who = also=20 flew with only two injectors, but there may be more.
 
Reduce fuel flow whether due to fuel = selector=20 position   or defective injector or combination during = take off=20 would certainly be critical.  As pointed out, when you lose = one rotor=20 you lose more than 50% of your HP due to 1.  Less rpm with = only one=20 rotor ,2. drag of non-power producing rotor.
 
 
Ed A
 
 
 
From: = John=20 Slade
To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:09 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Pauls Accident - analysis

The analysis of the 4 canardians who = examined=20 the wreckage of Paul Conner's aircraft is now available=20 at:
 
 
Does anyone know if and why Paul's engine was = configured with one=20 injector per rotor?
John
 

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