X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [206.46.252.48] (HELO vms048pub.verizon.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c1) with ESMTP id 688483 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:46:18 -0400 Received: from [63.24.55.5] ([63.24.97.17]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IM3006TBWH1T862@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:46:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:46:08 -0700 From: Ken Welter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Rational for TES "O" Rings In-reply-to: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1086597702==_ma============" References: --============_-1086597702==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I don't know how you figure the TES seals could raise the temp but I am concerned at how stiff they are and in the application of the rotors I think the seals need to be softer and more flexible but that's just an eyeball engineers point of view, the Viton seals have worked just fine for me and in my early days of sorting things out I was running very high oil temps and still had no problems with the O-rings, if it works I don't fix it. I am however using the TES O-rings in the rotor housing and like them and will stick with them but this is an application where I don't think they need to be flexible as with the rotors but then again I am just an eyeball engineer. Ken Welter >Rusty and all, > I am of the opinion (yet to be proven ) that the use of TES seals in the >rotors may raise the critical temp for oil.......It is well known that the 13B >is most efficient with oil temps in the 160 to 200 F range and that power >suffers above these numbers........I do not advocate flying with oil temps >above those numbers but most of us will struggle with oil temps as we >sort out our oil cooling systems.........My hope is that the TES seals will >provide a safety buffer for oil temp by preventing the rotor oil seals from >going away with short periods of over temp during test flying......The >same can be said for the inner coolent seal as well with the outer seal >probably not a real problem (but they are less expensive than stock)........ > >FWIW >-- >Kelly Troyer >Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 > > > >-------------- Original message from keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer): >-------------- > >Rusty, > Chuck Dunlap is currently flying with TES O-rings supplied to him >by Paul Lamar........ These are Creavey seals of the sizes determined >by Paul L.......I failed to ask Chuck the flying hours on these seals..... >Chuck jump in here if you are listening !! I do know that the flying >conditions in Arizonia where he lives put a strain on both coolent >and oil cooling systems and their respective seals.......If there are >others currently flying these seals in the rotors I am not aware of >who they are !! >-- >Kelly Troyer >Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 > > > >-------------- Original message from "Russell Duffy" ><13brv3@bellsouth.net>: -------------- > >The Rotor Oil Seal O-ring sizes are: (Credit to Paul Lamar) > > PFA-SIL 0.093" section 4.680 inch ID $4.59 each > PFA-SIL 0.118" section 4.330 inch ID $4.47 " > > The Coolent O-ring sizes are: > >PFA-SIL 0.093" section 11.190 inch ID $8.33 " >PFA-SIL 0.093" section 8.950 inch ID $6.60 " > > >Hi Kelly, > >Thanks for posting the final results of your quest. This will >be good info to stash away. If nothing else, these are quite a bit >cheaper than the stock rings. > >Is anyone currently using the TES o-rings for the oil seals, and >have significant time on them? > >Cheers, >Rusty > > > > --============_-1086597702==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [FlyRotary] Rational for TES "O" Rings
   I don't know how you figure the TES seals could raise the temp but I am concerned at how stiff they are and in the application of the rotors I think the seals need to be softer and more flexible but that's just an eyeball engineers point of view, the Viton seals have worked just fine for me and in my early days of sorting things out I was running very high oil temps and still had no problems with the O-rings, if it works I don't fix it.
 I am however using the TES O-rings in the rotor housing and like them and will stick with them but this is an application where I don't think they need to be flexible as with the rotors but then again I am just an eyeball engineer.
  Ken Welter




Rusty and all,
      I am of the opinion (yet to be proven ) that the use of TES seals in the
rotors may raise the critical temp for oil.......It is well known that the 13B
is most efficient with oil temps in the 160 to 200 F range and that power
suffers above these numbers........I do not advocate flying with oil temps
above those numbers but most of us will struggle with oil temps as we
sort out our oil cooling systems.........My hope is that the TES seals will
provide a safety buffer for oil temp by preventing the rotor oil seals from
going away with short periods of over temp during test flying......The
same can be said for the inner coolent seal as well  with the outer seal
probably not a real problem (but they are less expensive than stock)........
 
FWIW
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2


-------------- Original message from keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer): --------------
Rusty,
   Chuck Dunlap is currently flying with TES O-rings supplied to him
by Paul Lamar........ These are Creavey seals of the sizes determined
by Paul L.......I failed to ask Chuck the flying hours on these seals.....
Chuck jump in here if you are listening !! I do know that the flying
conditions in Arizonia  where he lives put a strain on both coolent
and oil cooling systems and their respective seals.......If there are
others currently flying these seals in the rotors I am not aware of
who they are !!
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2


-------------- Original message from "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net>: --------------
The Rotor Oil Seal O-ring  sizes are: (Credit to Paul Lamar) 
 
 PFA-SIL   0.093" section  4.680 inch ID  $4.59 each
 PFA-SIL   0.118" section  4.330 inch ID  $4.47   " 
 
 The Coolent O-ring sizes are: 
 
PFA-SIL   0.093" section 11.190 inch ID  $8.33   " 
PFA-SIL   0.093" section   8.950 inch ID  $6.60   " 
 
 
Hi Kelly,
 
Thanks for posting the final results of your quest.  This will be good info to stash away.  If nothing else, these are quite a bit cheaper than the stock rings. 
 
Is anyone currently using the TES o-rings for the oil seals, and have significant time on them?
 
Cheers,
Rusty    
 
 
 
 

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