X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 613911 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:38:44 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-065-188-083-049.carolina.res.rr.com [65.188.83.49]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j6P0buBI028974 for ; Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901c590b1$2f2cbf40$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mazda Factory O rings vs TES O rings Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:38:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5908F.A7DABAE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5908F.A7DABAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageI think whether you are for TES "O" rings a lot has to do with = your comfort level.=20 If you are comfortable that you are never going to overheat your rotary = then the TES rings are probably not going to do a thing for you. = However, given that you can seldom pull over to the side of the road = when the temp gauge heads HOT in aircraft, I think its only natural to = want a bid of an edge.=20 Several people (myself being one of them) have cooked the stock inner = coolant "O" ring (coolant in the combustion chamber), but was able to = replace the cooked "O" ring and return to flying. Never cooked the = outer "O" ring and have left that one stock and I feel that if you do = get it hot enough to cook the outer ring - then you have compromised = your engine. I have had the TES type in three rebuilds and only had one = failure(recently) when the part of the apex seal trapped in the rotor = milled lightening-hole generated a localized hot spot on the side = housing which exceeded even their temperature capability. Personally, I think for aircraft usage - anything you can do = (reasonably) that gives you even a slight edge is worth it for peace of = mind, particularly given that cooling can be marginal in the best of = systems with high OAT , high power and lower airspeeds. But, as stated - that's just a personal viewpoint. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mazda Factory O rings vs TES O rings Rusty, see response in the body of your message below. I'm wondering why people like Tracy Crook and Bruce Turrentine = bother with TES "O" rings. I think they may have a better idea - don't = you! You don't seem to be wondering why they DON'T use them on the outer = O-ring :-) =20 That little extra "piece of mind" and rationalisation of product - = crush similarity etc.. Seriously, you're absolutely right about this being appropriate for = the list, and it's human nature to want to improve things. = Unfortunately, until it's proven with some hours on a flying engine, you = can only hope that it will be at least as good as the stock ring, since = they never fail.=20 Maybe ! =20 What's all that information of water in rotor housing coming from? One good thing that came out of this thread for me is learning that = Mazda went back to putting the o-rings in the rotor housings. I hadn't = realized that. I did a check on the stock Mazda o-rings though, and = note that there is a different part number for 74-85, and 86-95 (and = later in other countries).=20 I think that's material improvement - anyhow that's what has been = put to me! I wouldn't be too quick to assume the size of the Renesis seal, or = the pre-86 seal will be the same as the one on the end housing that = Kelley is sending Creavey. =20 That hasn't been claimed!=20 George ( down under) ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5908F.A7DABAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I think whether you are for TES "O" = rings a=20 lot has to do with your comfort level. 
 
 If you are comfortable that you are never = going to=20 overheat your rotary then the TES rings are probably not going to do a = thing for=20 you.  However, given that you can seldom pull over to the side of = the road=20 when the temp gauge heads HOT in aircraft, I think its only natural to = want a=20 bid of an edge. 
 
 Several people (myself being one of them) = have=20 cooked the stock inner coolant "O" ring (coolant in the combustion = chamber), but=20 was able to replace the cooked "O" ring and return to = flying.  Never=20 cooked the outer "O" ring and have left that one stock and I feel = that if=20 you do get it hot enough to cook the outer ring - then you have = compromised your=20 engine.
 
 I have had the TES type in three = rebuilds and=20 only had one failure(recently)  when the part of the apex seal = trapped=20 in the rotor milled lightening-hole generated a localized hot spot on = the side=20 housing which exceeded even their temperature capability.
 
Personally, I think for aircraft usage = - anything you=20 can do (reasonably) that gives you even a slight edge is worth it = for =20 peace of mind, particularly given that cooling can be marginal in the = best of=20 systems with high OAT , high power and lower airspeeds.
 
But, as stated - that's just a personal=20 viewpoint.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 = 7:46 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mazda = Factory O=20 rings vs TES O rings

Rusty, see = response in the=20 body of your message below.
I'm wondering why people like Tracy = Crook and=20 Bruce Turrentine bother with TES "O" rings. I think they may have a = better=20 idea - don't you!
 
You don't=20 seem to be wondering why they DON'T use them on the outer = O-ring=20 :-)  
 
That=20 little extra "piece of mind" and rationalisation of product - crush=20 similarity etc..
 
Seriously, you're absolutely right about = this being=20 appropriate for the list, and it's human nature to want to improve=20 things.  Unfortunately, until it's proven with some hours on a = flying=20 engine, you can only hope that it will be at least as good as the = stock=20 ring, since they never fail. 
 
Maybe=20 !  
What's=20 all that information of water in rotor housing coming=20 from?
 
One good=20 thing that came out of this thread for me is learning that = Mazda went=20 back to putting the o-rings in the rotor housings.  I hadn't = realized=20 that.  I did a check on the stock Mazda o-rings = though, and=20 note that there is a different part number for 74-85, and 86-95 (and = later=20 in other countries). 
 
I think=20 that's material improvement - anyhow that's what has been put to=20 me!
 
 I=20 wouldn't be too quick to assume the size of the Renesis seal, = or the=20 pre-86 seal will be the same as the one on the end housing that = Kelley is=20 sending Creavey.  
 
That=20 hasn't been claimed! 
 
 
George (=20 down = under)
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