Return-Path: Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 819718 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:39:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.65; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from paul ([216.78.114.87]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with SMTP id <20050325033833.BUAQ2001.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@paul> for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:38:33 -0500 Message-ID: <008e01c53172$3fa3f670$57724ed8@paul> From: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: a better running rotary Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:38:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C5313F.F4524460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C5313F.F4524460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,Ed...(and Rusty). I woould still like to finish the carburetor = manifold, mostly because of the challenge, plus I spent so much time, = money and effort engineering it. I would like to see if it works. I can = just mount it and fire it up with a plastic marine gas tank and a hose = to fire it up and see what kind of rpm's I get from it. That way, I can = have the EFI system back on-line in an hour or less. Most likely, = however the EFI will remain, as I won't have to fabricate a carb heat = setup, or provide a mixture lever. I can just go fly and enjoy my = airplane. Hmmm.....maybe the carburetor museum isn't such a bad idea = afterall? Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: a better running rotary Hey, Paul Great to hear the good news. That is the one thing that folks on this = list made it such a great list to be on. We can share our = mistakes/lessons learned without fear of ridicule (well, maybe some good = natured ridicule {:>)). I have posted things that were a bit = embarrassing (and/or stupid if you prefer) such as my 12 miles engine = out glide - with a full 18 gallon take just the turn of a handle away. = Why? because I knew with absoluteness that the other than still had 3 = gallons in it. It did, but the fuel feed had become disconnected and the = engine could not reach the fuel. So, you hooking up two connections to = one sensor pales in comparison in my opinion. Does this mean you are sticking with EFI (in spite of a custom = mounting plate?). I hope you do because I think in the long run you = will really come to "love" EFI. Keep flying Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sqpilot@bellsouth.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] a better running rotary I went out to the airport today and ran the engine up, did a quick = full power runup and then went to the runway and took off and landed = (back on the same runway). Never ran better...matter of fact never ran = this well. What, might we ask made the dramatic improvement? I call it = reverse stupidity. A couple of days ago, I went to a page on my = MicroTech ECU handheld programmer that I had not previously viewed. It = showed rpm and water temp. My engine monitor showed a water temp of 160 = degrees F. The ECU monitor showed a water temp of -24 degrees C. Not = even close. To make a long story short, I had wired two monitors to one = water temp sending unit. After running the engine, the ECU water temp = climbed from -24C all the way up to -12C. I disconnected the wire that = went to the engine monitor, and the ECU water temp immediately went up = to 60C. Since the ECU varies fuel and timing based on water = temperatures, it was unable to do it's job correctly with inaccurate = water temp inputs. The cold start enrichment also was not functioning, = as the engine map's were supposed to start reducing mixture levels after = reaching 50 degrees C. It never saw those numbers, so it could not = function properly. Now, with the proper water temp inputs, it runs = GREAT !!! Cold start, warm up, idle through WOT is smooth as silk. To = think of all the time I wasted trying to program injector open times, = etc on an ECU that was receiving improper water temp information. I should have known better than to connect two monitors to one = sending unit, but I did it anyway. Just hoping others can learn from my = mistake instead of making their own. Just when I had a custom made mounting plate made for the HA-6 = carburetor I just purchased, the thing has to go and run like a swiss = watch. Murphy wins again. Take care. Paul Conner ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C5313F.F4524460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,Ed...(and Rusty).  = I woould still=20 like to finish the carburetor manifold, mostly because of the = challenge,=20 plus I spent so much time, money and effort engineering it. I would like = to see=20 if it works. I can just mount it and fire it up with a plastic marine = gas tank=20 and a hose to fire it up and see what kind of rpm's I get from = it. That=20 way, I can have the EFI system back on-line in an hour or less. =  Most=20 likely, however the EFI will remain, as I won't have to fabricate a carb = heat=20 setup, or provide a mixture lever.  I can just go fly and enjoy my=20 airplane.  Hmmm.....maybe the carburetor museum isn't such a bad = idea=20 afterall?  Paul Conner
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 = 8:15=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: a = better running=20 rotary

Hey, Paul
 
Great to hear the good news.  = That is the=20 one thing that folks on this list made it such a great list to be = on.  We=20 can share our mistakes/lessons learned without fear of ridicule = (well,=20 maybe some good natured ridicule {:>)).  I have posted things = that=20 were a bit embarrassing (and/or stupid if you prefer) such as my 12 = miles=20 engine out glide - with a full 18 gallon take just the turn of a = handle=20 away.  Why? because I knew with absoluteness that the other than = still=20 had 3 gallons in it. It did, but the fuel feed had become disconnected = and the=20 engine could not reach the fuel.  So, you hooking up two = connections to=20 one sensor pales in comparison in my opinion.
 
Does this mean you are sticking with = EFI (in=20 spite of a custom mounting plate?).  I hope you do because I = think in the=20 long run you will really come to "love" EFI.
 
Keep flying
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 sqpilot@bellsouth.net =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 = 12:57=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] a better = running=20 rotary

I went out to the airport today and = ran the=20 engine up, did a quick full power runup and then went to the runway = and took=20 off and landed (back on the same runway).  Never ran = better...matter of=20 fact never ran this well.  What, might we ask made the dramatic = improvement?  I call it reverse stupidity.  A couple of = days ago,=20 I went to a page on my MicroTech ECU handheld programmer that I had = not=20 previously viewed. It showed rpm and water temp. My engine monitor = showed a=20 water temp of 160 degrees F.  The ECU monitor showed a = water temp=20 of -24 degrees C. Not even close. To make a long story short, I had = wired=20 two monitors to one water temp sending unit. After running the = engine, the=20 ECU water temp climbed from -24C all the way up to -12C.  I=20 disconnected the wire that went to the engine monitor, and the ECU = water=20 temp immediately went up to 60C.  Since the ECU varies fuel and = timing=20 based on water temperatures, it was unable to do it's job = correctly=20 with inaccurate water temp inputs.  The cold start enrichment = also was=20 not functioning, as the engine map's were supposed to start reducing = mixture=20 levels after reaching 50 degrees C.  It never saw those = numbers, so it=20 could not function properly.  Now, with the proper water temp = inputs,=20 it runs GREAT !!!  Cold start, warm up, idle through WOT is = smooth as=20 silk.  To think of all the time I wasted trying to program = injector=20 open times, etc on an ECU that was receiving improper water temp=20 information.
     I should = have known=20 better than to connect two monitors to one sending unit, but I did = it=20 anyway. Just hoping others can learn from my mistake instead of = making their=20 own.
      Just = when I had=20 a custom made mounting plate made for the HA-6 carburetor I just = purchased,=20 the thing has to go and run like a swiss watch.  Murphy wins=20 again.  Take care.  Paul=20 Conner
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