Return-Path: Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au ([61.8.0.85] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 725354 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:38:47 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.8.0.85; envelope-from=peon@pacific.net.au Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with ESMTP id j1BJc1Hn030606 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:38:01 +1100 Received: from ar1 (ppp242B.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.36.43]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j1BJbxGf014939 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:37:59 +1100 Message-ID: <008501c51070$bc30e630$2b24083d@ar1> From: "Leon" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: More wild ideas was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: To Paul SOme diagnosis thoughts Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:34:41 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01C510CC.EF087990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C510CC.EF087990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yo Paul, OK, so it WASN'T the ECU! Not electrical? I assume by now you have = checked all electrical connections?? Not the fuel filter etc? No water = in the fuel?? Vapour lock with EFI is pretty hard to get. At 3 Bar pressure, the EFI = pumps will see to that (as long as they don't have to suck uphill). The = only place you could get a vapour lock is between the tank(s) and the = lift pump, if you have one. As I have no idea how your fuel is = plumbed, I can only make wild guesses. So, ... SILLY question. How much fuel was actually in the tanks?? Some = aircraft are notorious for not being able to access a fair percentage of = what is left in the tanks at unusual attitudes. ALL is OK in level = flight, but on rotation, or a steep (unbalanced) bank or side slip, = the tank pickups are uncovered. I've also come across problems of = highly inaccurate fuel guage(s). The only sure way is to dip the tank. = I seem to remember reading about a similar incident in a "Crash Comic" = just recently. Even the pros screw up occasionally (e.g., Boeing 307 = Stratosubmarine!).=20 Got to get to the bottom of this - you are too good a pilot and too nice = a bloke to needlessly have a prang. Cheers mate, Leon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 5:21 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To Paul SOme diagnosis thoughts was Re: = [FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI and Tuning Hi, Leon....I appologize for being late in responding....I haven't had = a chance to get on the computer. Yes, I ran the engine yesterday. After = inspecting the spark plugs (looked like new with no evidence of rich = soot or burned porcelain), I fired it up and it ran great. Good idle, = midrange, and 5300 rpm static instead of my usual 5200 rpm. I ran it WOT = until the temps finally got so high that I had to shut it down and watch = the antifreeze burp out of the overflow on the surge tank. Set up a = cooling fan for a few minutes, then restarted the engine and temps came = down right away with the circulating of the water/antifreeze through the = engine and radiator.=20 As I mentioned in my previous post, I am higly suspect that my = problem was vapor lock/heat related due to the two close together WOT = engine runs I performed just prior to takeoff. Normally, I always take = off with temps around 160 to 180, not 220 or better. My temps normally = come down in the climb, but at only 250 feet, I'm fairly confident I = hadn't gotten much cooling air to the radiator at WOT in the climb. I = will keep you posted. Thanks again for taking the time to help out. = Paul Conner ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C510CC.EF087990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yo Paul,
 
OK,  so it WASN'T the ECU!  = Not=20 electrical?  I assume by now you have checked all electrical=20 connections??  Not the fuel filter etc?  No water in the=20 fuel??
 
Vapour lock with EFI is pretty hard to = get. =20 At 3 Bar pressure,  the EFI pumps will see to that (as long as they = don't=20 have to suck uphill).  The only place you could get a vapour lock = is=20 between the tank(s) and the lift pump,  if you have one.  As I = have no=20 idea how your fuel is plumbed,  I can only make wild = guesses.
 
So, ... SILLY question.  How much = fuel was=20 actually in the tanks??  Some aircraft are notorious for not being = able to=20 access a fair percentage of what is left in the tanks at unusual=20 attitudes.  ALL is OK in level flight,  but on = rotation,  or=20 a steep (unbalanced) bank or side slip,   the tank pickups are = uncovered.  I've also come across problems of highly inaccurate = fuel=20 guage(s).  The only sure way is to dip the tank. I seem to = remember=20 reading about a similar incident in a "Crash Comic" just recently.  = Even=20 the pros screw up occasionally (e.g.,  Boeing 307=20 Stratosubmarine!). 
 
Got to get to the bottom of this - you = are too good=20 a pilot and too nice a bloke to needlessly have a prang.
 
Cheers mate,
 
Leon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20
Sent: Saturday, February 12, = 2005 5:21=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To = Paul SOme=20 diagnosis thoughts was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI and = Tuning

Hi, Leon....I appologize for being = late in=20 responding....I haven't had a chance to get on the computer.  = Yes, I ran=20 the engine yesterday. After inspecting the spark plugs (looked like = new with=20 no evidence of rich soot or burned porcelain), I fired it up and it = ran great.=20 Good idle, midrange, and 5300 rpm static instead of my usual 5200 rpm. = I ran=20 it WOT until the temps finally got so high that I had to shut it down = and=20 watch the antifreeze burp out of the overflow on the surge tank.  = Set up=20 a cooling fan for a few minutes, then restarted the engine and temps = came down=20 right away with the circulating of the water/antifreeze through the = engine and=20 radiator.
     As I = mentioned in my=20 previous post, I am higly suspect that my problem was vapor lock/heat = related=20 due to the two close together WOT engine runs I performed just prior = to=20 takeoff. Normally, I always take off with temps around 160 to 180, not = 220 or=20 better. My temps normally come down in the climb, but at only 250 = feet, I'm=20 fairly confident I hadn't gotten much cooling air to the radiator at = WOT in=20 the climb.  I will keep you posted. Thanks again for taking the = time to=20 help out.  Paul Conner
  ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C510CC.EF087990--