Return-Path: Received: from web41505.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.88] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with SMTP id 724386 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:05:00 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.218.93.88; envelope-from=tomtugan@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 76543 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Feb 2005 23:04:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Q6Qb3LE5u+WcalZOumT/vVB8iD7Q+ARyD5hvcg7qhkqSXAR9yQDgw8aiGFlFMKo0Ov9mkCvYj0jZ1/S5SJY3mvpHjIH7EpkbGym+D0+AoxhWfjF8Ktxc4Z/NPkfrVSD0df3t3ZgwbpzBduxcMcfAIFv/oUzxBbTBbwO2ZkLW6hw= ; Message-ID: <20050210230414.76541.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.224.93.112] by web41505.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:04:14 PST Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Solved!!!! => Rotary AirFlow Equation? Help? To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-511990431-1108076654=:76434" --0-511990431-1108076654=:76434 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for working this out Ed. In any case it sure reflects lower rotary CFM numbers quite a bit less than Ken Powell estimated earlier in December when previously talking thru things. Refering back on this topic --- Ken Powell wrote (in December)... Hp don't mean anything as its all in CFM and at that time tne biggest they offered was 350 CFM which will work fine on the big lunged ancient airplane motors but we need free high flowing carburetors, about 650 to 700 CFM is about right. They insisted to me that 350 CFM was just fine for the rotary which was a bunch of bull, now if they now offer something 650 or bigger then they will work great and I would take a look at them again. Ken The Elison throttle body wont flow enough air unless you run two of them with is cost prohibitive. Ken --- Sorry to say but I think you are dead wrong on the need for high airflow on the rotary and there is no way 350 CFM will work unless you want to fly a turd. You did a fine job making that high flow manifold and I bet you wont put a 350 CFM throttle body on it. I had 1000 hrs flying time on my old coot with a 51 Weber and when I rebuilt it I could not get another 51 as they are hard to come by so I went to a 48mm instead and there was a noticeable drop in power and I would switch back to a 51 if I weren't go to a turbo. For anyone thinking of a Weber I will say there are pros and cons between a 48 and a 51, the 51 puts out more power but it is temperamental on jetting and it runs rough on the bottom end compared to the 48, there is also a 55mm Weber but I have had no experience with it but would consider it. For the best deal on Weber carbs check out performance parts warehouse at http://www.webercarburetors.com Ken --- It has been many years since I have talked to Elison so maybe they make a bigger model now but at that time the biggest was a 1.5 inch or 37.5mm bore and for the rotary you would need at least 70mm bore for a single throat so if they make something that size I think it would work fine but I have never seen an Elison on any rotary and there are many Webers out there so they are a proven. Also at the $1500 price tag they want for the Elison its a bit spendy to hope it will work. Ken I write now... Weber 51 carb, bore=51mm = 2.0x inches Weber 48 carb, bore = 48mm = 1 7/8 inches Rusty wrote... This just in from Ellison: Thank you for your interest in our Throttle Body Injectors. The bore diameters are as follows: EFS-4-5 = 1.875, EFS-5 = 2.0, EFS-10 = 2.4. --- Jerry Hey wrote yesterday... Yes, it is 1.61 inches. Tom wrote to Jerry yesterday... Jerry, Do you have an i.d. measurement for the narrow end? TIA Tom Jerry Hey wrote: Today UPS brought the bell mouths for the P port intake. They are three inches o.d. across and have a smooth gradual taper down to the runner size ... Ed Anderson wrote: __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --0-511990431-1108076654=:76434 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks for working this out Ed.   In any case it sure reflects lower rotary CFM numbers quite a bit less than Ken Powell estimated earlier in December when previously talking thru things.  
 
 
Refering back on this topic
 
---
Ken Powell wrote (in December)...
 Hp don't mean anything as its all in CFM and at that time tne biggest they offered was
350 CFM which will work fine on the big lunged ancient airplane motors but we need free
high flowing carburetors, about 650 to 700 CFM is about right.
 They insisted to me that 350 CFM was just fine for the rotary which was a bunch of bull,
now if they now offer something 650 or bigger then they will work great and I would take a
look at them again.
 Ken
 
The Elison throttle body wont flow enough air unless you run two of them with is cost
prohibitive.
  Ken
---
Sorry to say but I think you are dead wrong on the need for high airflow on the rotary
and there is no way 350 CFM will work unless you want to fly a turd.    

 You did a fine job making that high flow manifold and I bet you wont put a 350 CFM
throttle body on it.
 
 I had 1000 hrs flying time on my old coot with a 51 Weber and when I rebuilt it I could
not get another 51 as they are hard to come by so I went to a 48mm instead and there was
a noticeable drop in power and I would switch back to a 51 if I weren't go to a turbo.

 For anyone thinking of a Weber I will say there are pros and cons between a 48 and a 51,
the 51 puts out more power but it is temperamental on jetting and it runs rough on the
bottom end compared to the 48, there is also a 55mm Weber but I have had no experience
with it but would consider it.

 For the best deal on Weber carbs check out performance parts warehouse at
http://www.webercarburetors.com
 Ken

---
  It has been many years since I have talked to Elison so maybe they make a bigger model
now but at that time the biggest was a 1.5 inch or 37.5mm bore and for the rotary you
would need at least 70mm bore for a single throat so if they make something that size I
think it would work fine but I have never seen an Elison on any rotary and there are many
Webers out there so they are a proven.
 Also at the $1500 price tag they want for the Elison its a bit spendy to hope it will
work.
  Ken
 
I write now...
Weber 51 carb, bore=51mm = 2.0x inches
Weber 48 carb, bore = 48mm = 1 7/8 inches
 
Rusty wrote...
This just in from Ellison:
Thank you for your interest in our Throttle Body Injectors.
The bore  diameters are as follows:
EFS-4-5 = 1.875,
EFS-5 = 2.0,
EFS-10 = 2.4.
 
---
Jerry Hey wrote yesterday...
 Yes, it is 1.61 inches.
Tom wrote to Jerry yesterday...
Jerry,
Do you have an i.d. measurement for the narrow end?
TIA
Tom

Jerry Hey wrote:
Today UPS brought the bell mouths for the P port intake. They are
three inches o.d. across and have a smooth gradual taper down to the
runner size ...


Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
 

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