Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #12715
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:10:43 -0800
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message

    Sooooo...., actually knowing little, but suspecting much:

 

    I'd suspect that Mazda designed the water pump and flow characteristics to provide adequate cooling for an idling engine in Phoenix in the summertime.  I'd also bet that the majority of time, a car is sitting at idle, as opposed to cruising down the freeway at 70 mph.

 

    My suspicion is that the water pump is designed for some arbitrary flow rate that will be adequate at idle - and at normal cruise (with it's attendant increased airflow).  I'd guess that the pump is flowing a much greater volume of water at high RPM's than is really necessary, because the pump impeller is not variable.  The engine temperature does not remain cold, because the thermostat closes, either completely or partially to keep the block temperature at 180-deg.

 

    Have ya-all ever driven a car with a stuck-open thermostat...?  The engine never warms up.  Runs OK, but builds-up sludge and carbon inside.

 

Jack;

 

The reason a car without a thermostat never warms up is because it is typically running about 30-40% of rated hp. In an airplane we are normally running about 70-90 %

 

I don’t disagree with your flow assessment for the car; but consider this.  My engineering analysis (all the same stuff that our friend Bill Shertz has now plotted out for everyone) for designing a somewhat optimum cooling system for my 20B told me I needed 40 to 50 gpm flow rate at 6000 rpm and 260 hp; that range depending on variable factors. For a 13B that’ something like 22 to 33 gpm.  When I measured the flow rate during the dyno tests I was pleased to find that the pump produced 48 gpm, with no thermostat, and 37 gpm with a thermostat.  This was pumping thru the engine and through the dyno loop which I know has less back pressure than my plane’s cooling loop, so my actual flow will be less.

 

So I don’t see any excess flow over what I need at high rpm/power, even running the engine without a thermostat.  Yes, there are regimes where it will be pumping more than I need – in the same regimes where I don’t care whether I’m wasting 1 hp driving a bit more flow than needed.  And, I could also put in bigger (heavier) radiators and run a larger delta T and a bit less flow.

 

(OK, I lied, get on with the beheading – it’s only because I’m not feeling well and sitting around at my computer instead of working on the airplane; honest)

 

Al

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster